@yassie_j i actually don't think so, because mastodon is trying to attempt to inject at least an iota of consent into the process, which misskey/akkoma style quotes completely ignores

ill actually defend mastodon here (though not as an example of the USA), and say that they're dealing with a difficult situation, and are trying to make the best out of things, a compromise, while trying to play ball with other implementations

this is a compromise that doesn't make everyone happy, but its one which i think is the right direction; try to allow revokable consent for quoting, and try to attempt reasonable fallback with existing implementations

sure, other implementations can ignore this new proposal and just keep their existing things, but if misskey wants to implement the standard, then they have to go all the way, and not just go "oh we'll just throw this data into another component so mastodon is happy"; no, implement and check the consent part, or else it'll not go along the spirit of the proposal

@yassie_j when misskey/pleroma first came around with "just" quotes, and there was talk of mastodon implementing them, there was a HUGE (and imo justified) backlash against it, as QRTs on twitter had caused massive angles of abuse; that stuck around, and imo its one of the few abuse-aware pushbacks that still exist on fedi today, wrt that

quote posts are good, but if you try to slice it in the way mastodon could deal with it, then it really doesn't have any truly good options right now;

1. implement misskey/pleroma style quote posting, which could amplify and adopt the (subtle/low-level) abuse and harassment methodology from twitter, or just natural emergence

2. deal with the abuse problem by introducing consent (as so much else of mastodon/fedi already does), and then break compatibility with existing quote posts, creating that divide in fedi implementations

them going with number 2, imo, is actually showing more integrity than the USA does, in anything, because they're not doing it for nothing

@yassie_j if you ask me, mastodon did the right thing here

does that excuse the fact they're essentially muscling a standard into fedi by their size? no, but for that hill, i genuinely don't think their way of doing quote posts is one to die on, or to spread rumors/vitrol of.

discouraging them of this kind of user-oriented integrity would not be good overall, since it just demoralises the people who are in charge at the moment, who (imo) are actually trying to do something good with the position they have

@charlotte @yassie_j

- private posts always go to your followers. So if you have a private-marked racconvo your followers can read half of it

thats why mastodon hides a reply by default in your home feed unless you follow the replied-to user

its not perfect, and the alternative is the severe restructuring of some core visibility/privacy methods (which is very very unlikely to get approval across fedi, just look at how difficult it is to get interaction controls going)

- no limits on who can dm you except for blocking

thats a moderation implementation detail, blocks are their own object and the usage of sending it across servers is also abusable (by server-bots which intercept and announce them)

- shares user blocks with other instances, which may then post them publically for harassment

yup, though atm only a small amount of servers are doing this, in seedy places

- There isn't a framework for automated moderation.

which is also one of my frustrations, but being worked on, as ive heard

@ShadowJonathan @yassie_j

i also think that there's a lot of folks who are like "but you can link to posts anyway so what's the point"

and what they fail to understand is how interfaces work - what buttons we do and don't provide encourage some behaviors over others. and i think that working in "yes, this exists but with consent" reframes how people think about quotes which then encourages different behavior

@deilann @yassie_j thresholds; viewing linked posts requires another click, interacting with the linked post requires a copy, switch tab, paste, load, and *then* expand from the search-bar into the actual post, to then interact with it

linking != quoting, in that manner

preventing abuse is not about removing all avenues to it, its about raising thresholds and thus decreasing probabilities; only the dedicated will pass over them and Do It Anyways, but there's about a hundred more that would've done it if they could be lazy about it