[GRLC] 
novenary@akko.wtf
artists can't make a living off their work *with* copyright, because selling artificially-scarce products is not sustainable, and you can't enforce it with limited resources anyway.
society needs to come up with a better way to support artists (to some extent, there are already some workarounds in place).
meanwhile, copyright stifles creativity and innovation by impeding important practices such as remixing and sampling, allowing vendors to monopolize software, etc.
all of this also applies to the western patent system. abolish both.
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/Cinny 
[GRLC]
novenary@akko.wtf
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how frequently doesn't art get stolen and put on shirts by automated bots or plagiarized online or stuff -- and artists frequently need to rely on the community to take those down
the legal system is mostly an empty threat from non-rich people, it may stop big corporations (though still not always), but it's not really a protection that applies to the masses
copyright was made for corporations to use against corporations and isn't meant for the public good
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TransGal4872 🏳️⚧️ 
TransGal4872@mk.absturztau.be
@novenary <Nim> I’ve said elsewhere, but the reason I use public domain releases for my code is because I do not have the power to enforce liscense violations against corperations, so the only people I would be stopping with a strong copyleft or all rights reserved would be other hobbiests.
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@novenary copyright rules are useless without enforcement. If you’re a small artist, good luck enforcing it. In addition, copyright law as it stands now is a creation of corporations. It is an apocryphal tale that extensions to the length of copyright periods are because Disney doesn’t want their characters to fall into public domain.
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last year or so the software freedom conservancy did partner with wine devs to go after john deere for violating the gpl on wine
big corporations usually respect the gpl because there's things to be gained from helping devs sue them
there's nothing to be gained from helping anyone sue just another random dev, so in the end, copyright is something that doesn't work for the masses, but may work against corpos
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otherwise, upstream wine could just take the code back. sure, it's harder if they're not obligated to disclose the source code, but i think it's possible to address that problem without copyright.
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yeah, copyright is broken and should be removed, i'm not defending it and want it gone
just while it exists, copyleft is one way to get things to suck a bit less against those big corpos -- so until the day we abolish copyright, i do think copyleft helps at least on those cases
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Master Flesh of House Tzimisce
flesh@gts.fleshcraft.tech@novenary Why *Western* patent system specifically?
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antimu0n 🤘 metal lynx ♿ 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
antimu0n@furry.engineer@novenary making copyright protection similar to patents would already be a huge win. Unlike copyright which can be extended basically forever, at least patents expire after 20 years max no matter what.
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and 20 years is already way too long
i agree that limiting it to a few years would be a huge improvement, but ideally it needs to go away entirely
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what does that mean for a company
120 years from creation or 95 years from publication in the US. possibly different elsewhere
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@navi @novenary @TransGal4872 yeah, that's kinda my take on it too
i think long term a lack of copyright is helpful, but also i don't think it's helpful to be the one to remove your own copyright protections(as weak as they may be) first while corporations will still sue you out the ass if you touch anything they made
as for what individuals should do now? shrug. i think "public domain(or as close as you can get)" is still the way to go since it changes Basically nothing for you. "all rights reserved, but i want you to pirate this work" also... works, though opens yourself up to copyright trolls.
being anti-corporate and refusing to, eg, help anyone who's opening an issue on behalf of a corporation (or refusing to do free labor for them, etc, which is the more relevant thing in a programming context) would be significantly more helpful i think. "you can use this, sure, but you maintain patches yourself, don't bother me about it" (which is what large corporations can easily do anyways)
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