who tf let british politicians decide toilet types at 39c3, why tf is there a trans only one

like I get the idea but this is pretty othering for no real discernible purpose

@ave This feels a lot like that "FLINTA but really we just mean femme folks" thing that I see happening here and there

@joepie91 That's the reason I was very skeptical when I first saw the acronym "FLINTA", and over time came to have my suspicions confirmed: it just means "femme, preferably women" - honestly, this is really getting annoying

@ave

@ics @ave It does seem to vary a lot by place and context whether FLINTA means "femme-presenting" or "no cis men", from what I've seen - but I'm in the Netherlands where it's an uncommon term/concept so it's possible that over in Germany things look different

@joepie91 @ics @ave we feel the same way but it’s just anxiety talking tbh (as genderqueer germans who are to scared to go to many irl events)

@charlotte @joepie91 @ave

@ics @joepie91 @ave no please don’t worry

@ave we've been doing toilets wrong: we should split them by piss and shit.

@ave 100% agree on feeling othering. Wouldn't it be ok with a unisex option and the 2 binary (trans inclusive) options? 🤔

@nepo @ave@treehouse.systems Maybe not for all. Many non-cis-male people have issues with sharing toilets etc with cis men.

If the facilities do not have single room toilets, i.e. each with a separate door, sink, etc, labeling the binary rooms „all gender" and „FINTA*“ seems to be the second best option.

I wonder why they left out the F.

Leaving some rooms binary is ... a decision 🫤 I understand the rationale, although I personally find it not necessary.

@ave “All genders” was good enough already

I would honestly like to know if there was any report from last year about if “all genders” had caused any problem to anybody.

@cinnamon 37c3 had issues with people stealing/vandalizing signs of all gender bathrooms, idk 38c3. but I imagine the people doing that would have a field day with this ATIN* one.

@ave i think this is somewhat justifiable. the same way there might be women uncomfortable with sharing a bathroom with men (that’s why they added the binary toilet), so the same way there might be trans people uncomfortable with sharing a bathroom with cis people

@green @ave But… People don’t share individual toilet cubicles, and those have a lock.

I don’t know… the feeling of being able to share toilet with people from the gender I would like to be open about some day was nice and empowering. The feeling of “not for you, you don’t belong here” ranges from depressing to RSD triggering.

@green @ave this. every time i've been somewhere with dedicated all-gender public restrooms (not single-user) it's still filled with cis people and parents with kids my existence apparently threatens, and i still feel like everyone expects me to pee at home.

@green @ave This would be completely alleviated if people were Normal about peepeepoopoo but the social norms are too ingrained they're really not going anywhere

@cinnamon @ave @green I used to argue for individual lockable stalls as a solution. The excuse people gave me was that sinks are still shared, and Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women say they don't want to wash up in the presence of people born male especially if menstrual blood is involved.

@ave If I needed one last reason to never go to xxC3, this would be it. What a pathetic organization...

@ave the segregation? Rumors say, awareness is behind this.

@Exilsarahl @ave how utterly aware

@jeder @Exilsarahl @ave not quite the same thing but with the political climate shi{f,t}ting toward fascism i believe we might see that at like, 42c3

@joepie91 Honestly, I gave up asking what it is supposed to mean every single time here in Germany – because every single time it means something different theoretically and actually. My cis wife doesn't even feel well in such settings anymore at all, whereas she is absolutely happy to go with me to queer places and queer events. But whenever I read FLINTA* (especially with the asterisk at the end) my hopes go up, just to be masterly dashed by the organizers.

And this sign above? Well, honestly there is a reason why I went back shunning all C3-events.

@ave

@joepie91 And re "femme presenting": if you check out my profile (media-section), you'll see lots of selfies – and you'd probably agree that I am quite femme presenting.

But the last time I went to a FLINTA*-labeled event, the looks I got were enough for me to immediately leave again.

@ave

@PinoBatch @ave @green Ooooh… I wasn’t aware about that cultural restriction. In that case, as unfortunate as it may seem from my own cultural background, the differentiation seems to make sense. People with those restrictions deserve to be taken into account as everyone else.

Today I learnt.

@cinnamon @PinoBatch @green I don't think this is a good excuse, they will make up a very small % at congress (which by itself doesn't mean much) and there's so many single person bathrooms with the sink inside the bathroom on each floor (which when combined with the other factor means they wouldn't overwhelm the amount of them).

@ave @PinoBatch @green It’s a complex management choice. After the explanation, I feel compassionate (is that the proper word?) about those minorities with their specific needs and I’m willing to put my grain of sand to make them feel included too.