Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
matrix: open, decentralised network
also matrix: everyone uses matrix.org because doing anything else is miserable
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Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
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@ariadne i dont really get why FOSS communities don't just use XMPP it is the most practical way to communicate
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Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
@lynn simple. it is a matter of aesthetics: when people think XMPP, they think of clunky chat apps
element looks enough like "discord" that people accept it
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@ariadne def agree that its some bs optics game. but i do admit that BoB not being standard XMPP and generally "media" being a bit harder. but FR u are kidding yourself if you think u need more than text/images/videos to get anything done in a community
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Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
@lynn if someone built a desktop application and mobile application (maybe all of which use the same framework, probably Flutter or something) and did not say it was "XMPP", it would probably do well
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Charlotte/Cinny 
charlotte
@ariadne isn’t matrix.org even more miserable due to being extremely slow and having disabled stuff like online status
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Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
@charlotte yes, this is why everyone just uses discord instead
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@ariadne @lynn and yet Element manages to be clunkier than most XMPP chat apps I tried
I stopped using XMPP because there was no E2E encryption, no history replication over multiple devices (hell, *just* using multiple devices was broken af), and file transfer was so broken I still remember that bzip2|base64 starts with Qlp...
in 2015 it was a shit protocol with moderately ok clients. then the last person i knew who used XMPP switched to Telegram
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Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
@whitequark @lynn yes, but it doesn't *look* clunky. aesthetics are important in software adoption...
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@whitequark @ariadne good thing all of those things are fixed by literally all recent clients/servers
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✧✦Catherine✦✧
whitequark@mastodon.social@lynn @ariadne last time I reviewed whether XMPP's E2EE was something I should use the answer was "definitely no" https://soatok.blog/2024/08/04/against-xmppomemo/, at which point I stopped caring because without good E2EE it becomes "Telegram with worse UI"
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@whitequark @ariadne also Element has never worked longer than an hour for me. it bricks itself and loops trying to open a chat that it thinks "doesnt exist" despite me making it
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Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
@whitequark @lynn oh yes, like i said, it is hot garbage.
but it *looks* competitive to the proprietary chat apps.
if you put it next to slack or discord, it is basically the same UX (just a lot clunkier)
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@ariadne @lynn I understand and accept your point but I feel like anybody who's used Discord will open Element and then feel like their brain is being rubbed on some sandpaper, which kind of takes the competitiveness away
the screenshots look the same but surely people pick their chat client not just going by screenshots?..
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Syntaxxor 🏳️⚧️ 
syntaxxor@sk.girlthi.ng
Show content
@ariadne Matrix: Open, decentralized network with a protocol anybody can make a server for.
Matrix, the moment someone manages to make a server that’s half-decent: Actually fuck you specifically we’re going to bully you until you disappear from the internet forever.
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NixOS 26.05 Yuanmousaurus🦕🦖
transcaffeine@mond-basis.euShow content
@ariadne make matrix.org paid membership to encourage more decentralisation
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XMPP definitely had E2EE in 2015. Not OMEMO, but it did have OTR and OpenPGP.
The lack of forward secrecy is extra scary for a private chat app, so it was certainly not ideal. But it wasn't nothing.
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@argv_minus_one @ariadne @lynn I used OTR with XMPP in 2010s very extensively. it was so easy to downgrade in practice due to fragile implementations that I don't think it had protected much of anything at all
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@ariadne We’re trying matrix at work. It’s hosted by our IT department. It’s been a week, and I think we’ve already spent in person-hours trying to make it work for everyone the amount we pay for Slack yearly. We’re fifteen in our group.
@whitequark
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@ariadne @whitequark I forgot to mention that there quarters of us are programmers or programming-adjacent, and the rest are still tech-savvy.
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Ariadne Conill 🐰
ariadne@social.treehouse.systems
@oscherler @whitequark sounds about right, i find myself allergic to it for a reason
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