how does one bootstrap a digital identity? like, you Need An Email, but that requires a domain, and domain registrars require an email, and then to host email you need a server - ideally a VPS - which also needs an email you can be contacted by if there are any issues.

of course, you could use Gmail or another free service that hosts email for you, and put that as the contact details for your Fundamental Services like domain registration and email hosting. this is what I currently do. but like how does one actually solve this without relying on an arbitrary external email host as the single root of your identity that branches out to every account you own everywhere?

@sodiboo idea:

Public IP, and one of those dynamic A/AAAA record generators. Host an SMTP server. Use this to buy a domain (tho there are domain sellers that don't need email iirc, not sure tho)

Could also ask a friend that hosts email already.

Issue: To get a public IP, you need to deal with ISPs.

Easiest probably to use some other service to sign up to email, ig.

@ity

Issue: To get a public IP, you need to deal with ISPs.

ah. yeah; assume i have a sufficient internet connection; i am totally able to host stuff from my home (local ISPs support “from-scratch” registration as long as i have a home to hook the services up to).

but that doesn’t imply i have a usable persistent domain to use for my email.

there are registrars that don’t require email? which ones?

@sodiboo

but that doesn't imply i have a usable persistent domain to use for my email.

Well, if all you need is a domain, just use one of the dynamic A/AAAA record generators. Eg @blankeclair runs a fedi instance over one of those. You just need a public IP and nothing else. It generates an A record for you. There's also one for IPv6, but idk from memory.

@sodiboo I have always used an external service to bootstrap and transfer things to the new entity once set up. If you’re looking for an identity cut-out for bootstrapping purposes I am always willing to help folks get online.

@dracoling

and transfer things to the new entity once set up

as in, “I use email on domain X to sign up to registrar Y, and then I transferred domain X to my account on registrar Y”? That’s a way to do it, I guess, but feels awfully fragile because it’s a circular dependency?

@sodiboo My very first email account was from a florida university hosted BBS I found in an advertisement section of a magazine. I sent this random guy in Florida $25 and he gave me an account on his machine WITH EMAIL “for life”. That account eventually set me up with my first domain, which led to owning/operating 50+ domains and hosting tens and hundreds of sites and services for others. I stopped using the account years ago, but I’ll never forget it and the way that $25 changed my life.

@sodiboo the entire thing is fragile. the internet is at its heart a web of hope strung together by wires of trust. we’ve just built so much on top of it that its easy to forget at times that broken down to its smallest pieces it is no longer usable in any way we recognize.

@sodiboo bootstrap with something external, and then start self hosting?
So use gmail or whatever to buy the domain, then point that to some hosted email (or self host), and change the domain registration to and email on thst

actually holy shit. swedish tax agency could be my root of trust.

that is the single source of truth for legal identity in sweden. with it, comes BankID, which is a digital identity handled by banks (and having lost access to BankID once or twice, i am acutely aware of the pure hell it is to access this because i need to show up in person and bring my ID as well as the proof of my identity; needless to say this is a reasonable root of my digital identity based in non-circular real-world dependencies)

i can get an internet connection without BankID; Telia doesn’t even require that the swedish tax agency knows of my existence. so i’m able to self-host e.g. email in theory. but i need a domain. how to get a domain?

why, it’s BankID. from a quick google search, registrars like https://www.loopia.se/ exist and i can use BankID as my identity for that. their domain offerings are not extensive, but i don’t need a Cool Domain.

then the game plan would be to use this, point that domain at my home (dyndns is solvable), host an email server there for my “bootstrap” identity, and then refactor the fundamental services to point to this now-sovereign identity.

(furthermore, this registrar and others too also offers email, which i “might as well” instead of trying to host my own, if they control the domain anyways; but all the theory needed to host it at home seems doable easy peasy)

given this being, honestly really the only possible way i see having a non-recursive root of digital identity, through a Government, the logical conclusion is that “wait what the fuck why don’t we just get a domain for free”. like imagine if i didn’t have to pay for a domain to use for bootstrapping purposes, but i just had like, PERSONNUMMER.individ.gov.se. no domain privacy on that since those details are public anyways

@ity @blankeclair oh yeah. ip6.arpa or whatever. though, i don’t have a static IP address at home.

however, i pondered, and realized there’s a really good and secure way i can get a domain name without an email: and that’s through swedish e-ID.

unrelated to above “everyone should have domain for free” but Oh? Telia is a registrar? Apparently so! https://www.telia.se/foretag/it/domannamn https://webstore.hosting.telia.com/

they also offer web hosting for. uh. what the fuck are these offerings and the prices lol. fuck off haha. but it’s cool that they Do Indeed Offer It.

@sodiboo be sure that your provider and IP space can be used for email, if the provider doesn’t block inbound services (many do) or outbound services (some do), many large providers automatically blacklist residential IP space due to historical botnet/spam prevention.

@dracoling

what do you mean by “block inbound services” or “block outbound services”?

re( the spam blocklists ): hm. that is a good word of caution! in theory, a “bootstrap email” only needs to communicate with like a handful of peers (two or three, ever?), so it should be fine if larger providers block me. but yes, very good to verify that my bootstrap email is usable in this home before i ever switch critical services over to it

@sodiboo In previous experiences two of our largest ISPs here (Verizon and Comcast) have partial or total blocks on inbound traffic to residential IPs on port 25. Meaning even if your router firewall is open, it doesn’t matter because that traffic has been blackholed inbound.

In one case I was able to temporarily get Verizon to allow port 25 traffic, but in a more recent case they told me I would have to subscribe to Business Class service (which was not available for that address) to do that. Comcast I never managed to get anyone on the phone who would even acknowledge what I was talking about.

Inbound port 25 blocking means the systems located at those locations were unable to receive mail from other providers.

@dracoling ah. no my ISP doesn’t do shit like that they’re chill. I just get a public IP which my router delegates and but the other side is just rawdogging the internet. I tested just now and I can connect to port 25 from my VPS just fine.

@dracoling wonder how painful it’d be to get a static IP from them and what’s that look like when switching ISPs. is it possible to have a static IP that’s different from the one my home generally has which can be dynamic. do home internet services support multiple assignment.

not that I need a static IP, but just like, how painful would it be.

you fucks. Loopia. you do not let me sign up using BankID. why.

why do i need a username and password.

just let me use 2FA only

although their signup does not need an email at least. it’s just a username and password. so no circular dependency is imposed. but like c’mon why do i need to use those things i only ever want bankid here that’d be so much easier

huh they also sell VPS with 1000 GB of traffic per month.

what. 1000 GB? i could saturate that in less than an hour on my home internet . what the fuck

“IP-adressansökan för IPv4”

https://iprequest.teliacompany.com/teliaSE/iprequest?IP=IPv4

oh it turns out this was a longer thread initially i forgot about that since i was only searching for a specific post in it. here’s some thoughts from just now

ah. this thread was longer. oops. should’ve appended these here

@sodiboo my instance can generate ~70 GiB of traffic sometimes

@link is that per day?

@sodiboo yes

ah yes . the one domain all the swedes really wished for

@sodiboo ah loopia…

@cuddlebug do you have any experience with them or advice? are you saying this because you’ve used them?

also their prices are exkl. moms by default?? that feels weird. i thought only the US and like, British Columbia, did this. i was under the impression that every price on every website and in every store ever had to be inkl. moms always.

like they state it pretty clearly and there’s a button to toggle inkl. moms. but why is exkl. moms. that is so unusual to me

@sodiboo why are they excluding moms what have mothers done to them

@lucidiot oh right. in english this is called VAT

@sodiboo VAT is only inraccluded on B2C sites

they probably are focused on B2B

ah yes that pricing on .se is also really fucking misleading lmao. it’s 1kr first year then 300kr renewal. lmaooooo

@sodiboo why are they excluding vats, how are you going to hold large quantities of liquid,

@charlotte i knowwww,,,, but i’m just silly little consumer so it’s confusing to mee,,,,

@sodiboo divide by four and then add it to the price

@charlotte No. I will click the button to include VAT. Don’t you dare make me LARP as an accountant

@sodiboo @lucidiot mums

belgium and UK domains are cheaper with the swedish registrar than swedish domain is.

in fact, .no is cheaper than .se here.

@sodiboo y’all have it easy tho

@sodiboo Telia’s hosting and registrar stuff is probably intended for businesses which is why it’s so oddly expensive

AFAIK Bahnhof gives you a free .st domain (because they run that TLD) if you’re a customer with them, which I’ve always thought was interesting, but don’t know how much access you have to it in terms of DNS configuration and such

@cuddlebug wait what . Bahnhof gives a domain???????? how did i not know this

@sodiboo yea I assume they still do, seems quite obscure and I assume not a lot of customers even know it exists

@sodiboo doesn’t seem like you have full access to the DNS though unfortunately, you just get 3GB of free web space or can redirect it elsewhere:

https://www.sweclockers.com/forum/trad/1698595-bahnhofs-st-doman-med-epost-tjanst-t-ex-icloud-outlook-protonmail

@cuddlebug “vidarestyrning av domän” is just “supply nameservers here”, no? that’s full access as far as i’m concerned. they just don’t also provide you with free DNS hosting

@sodiboo that’s how they get ya… I also remember when the renewal was only like 185kr or something

@sodiboo (Sparkles) you use your partner’s domain

@Sparky ok and how does my partner do this then.
also i’m single enough that i don’t trust anyone with this responsibility. i want to be a sovereign entity on the internet, to the extent that it is possible

@sodiboo pretty sure it only means doing a full 302 redirect on the domain to another URL, another thread shows a screenshot of what I assume is the interface for it:

https://www.sweclockers.com/forum/trad/1378885-bahnhof-ger-mig-en-st-doman-kan-jag-peka-denna-pa-ts

@cuddlebug Oh. Ew. This is useless then.

@cuddlebug also it seems to not be possible to get a domain via Bahnhof without being a broadband customer. and i don’t own a home. so i can’t get it anyways. soooo….

@sodiboo (Sparkles) i think you can do that if you get a job at ICANN

@sodiboo Wanted to mention phone numbers sadly being the most common root of trust but then noticed the age of this post

@natty I’m still looking for advice, don’t worry about the age of the post!

@natty Anyways, at the current stage in my life, phone numbers have the same issue as what i currently do: I rely on my dad to operate a particular domain which goes to a Gmail inbox, and it’s not necessarily more sovereign to have an email based on a phone number that he also controls in theory.

Like there’s nothing wrong with relying on him. Whatever. But i want to control it by myself.

The most promising way seems to be BankID, which is available with a couple swedish registrars i think (or at least with one)

@sodiboo In Czechia BankID works pretty well, but I dunno if I’d use it for non-administrative stuff

@sodiboo And CZ.NIC’s MojeID actually works as a source of trust for government logins, which is funny

wait how the fuck do i sign up for Loopia. i can’t log in with BankID but i also can’t log in with username/password and there’s no sign up option

HELLO??? I WANT TO GIVE YOU MONEY??? HOW DO I DO THAT?????

@sodiboo you should just give this one the money instead

@Chloe and trust it with my identity?

@sodiboo yes

this one can be trusted with your identity

ah. it seems i can create an account only on checkout. “Verifiera och skapa ditt Privat eller Företagskonto direkt via BankID (rekommenderas)”

now what’s a clever domain name i can register and use forever and always

OH?? the BankID is not an alternative to email?? Email is still obligatory. What the heck. What in the fricking hecking heck.

The whole point is to make this the root of my email! This is useless if it has a circular dependency of trust.

@sodiboo if the email I got when I first signed up for loopia is still correct then you could theoretically input a gibberish email address that is guranteed to not be received and still sign in with BankID right away if you are an individual and still get access to the account, maybe

@cuddlebug Yeah. I’d have access to the account. But i don’t really love the idea of needing to do that, because like, this is gonna be the root of my identity.

If i can’t access it because they want to verify my identity via email and the email is gibberish, then i’m Fucked.

@sodiboo yeah…

Huh. I just found another swedish registrar which is interesting for an entirely different reason, and i can’t really share that reason actually. Their website sucks. and FUCK THEY ALSO NEED AN EMAIL OKAY I CAN’T USE THEM EITHER. how do i get a domain name not tied to an email so that i can make my zeroth email tied to that domain name

actually wait fuck it why don’t i just flip this on its head.

i’m having trouble - if i recall correctly - because the root of this thread assumes i need my own domain before i can get an email address. The intention was to self host email. i also looked into the prospects of doing that at home, and owning an IP address.

but i’ve actually decided by now. No. I’m not going to do that.

I’m just going to delegate my email. Yes, like i’m already doing. But let’s not use Google at least. I’ll go with Fastmail, a choice i’m fairly confident in after a glowing recommendation from one of my friends.

They don’t require that i have an email, or that i bring my own domain. I can just make an email @fastmail.com with just a username and nothing else.

And, if i’m going to make this the email provider for the root of my identity, then i might as well literally also make them the email-dependency for the domain i use for that.

So, here’s the battle plan:

1. Create a fastmail account WITHOUT a cool fancy email domain.
2. Use that to sign up to Loopia, and create a domain that is “owned” by my BankID. It also can be recovered and hopefully/accessed through Fastmail, but hopefully in the event that Fastmail disappears or fucks up or whatever, i can “reparent” that Loopia account to some other mail service i wish to depend on, because i can prove that i still own the BankID (and the phone number; which i believe is also “owned” by my BankID)
3. I link the new “root” domain with Fastmail
4. All my other core accounts (password manager, server hosting, domain registrar, file backup) will use this new “root domain”. This way, it’s theoretically easy to move away from Fastmail. Only Loopia (or whoever i maybe move the root domain to) ever gets to know my @fastmail.com address.
5. Using the “other registrar”, i register more domains and add them to Fastmail. My existing email domains are included here. They will be delegated to Fastmail.
6. Every other service, and every individual i hand an email to, will get one of these “second class” email addresses, like they already do.

@sodiboo the entirety of canada has sales tax excluded

@niko my information about BC specifically is based off Tarsnap

https://www.tarsnap.com/legal-why.html#BCPSTISSTUPID

i believe that anchor name stands for “British Columbia Provicincial Sales Tax Is Stupid”

@sodiboo it’s pretty typical at smaller providers to charge for transfer

ah yes. Fastmail requires a phone number.

fine. okay. i’m willing to do that.

i believe my main phone number is not “dependent” on an email.

oh? i have?

huh. loopia provides a TOS summary?

“please read our Terms of Service and the TLDR“

most fascinating 404 page i’ve ever seen

uhm. what.

@sodiboo Beställ

also @cuddlebug do you know if Loopia has domain privacy . like i guess it doesn’t matter. this domain will be “Private”. but it’d be nice to not dox myself if i accidentally ever show it.

@sodiboo certifierat loopia moment

vad försöker du Beställa?

@thermia hello thermia. i am trying to buy a domain name without depending on an email address. i have given up, and am buying through Loopia, with a new email address i registered through Fastmail. this is because Loopia allows me to attach BankID, so hopefully i can log in without the email ever. but it is still dependent on an email address, technically.

@sodiboo @cuddlebug thermia has a couple of domains with them, they both have private WHOIS records

@thermia @cuddlebug wow all the swedishoomfs are already customers at the registrar i’m trying to purchase from?

@thermia @cuddlebug it’s just i didn’t see anything about domain privacy in the checkout. most providers offer it for free but e.g. namecheap makes a big deal about how “You Are Also Buying WHOIS Privacy for Zero Dollars. This is FREE and you CAN RENEW IT WITHOUT CHARGE”

@sodiboo @cuddlebug swoomfs, if you will

@thermia @cuddlebug swoomfs

@sierra @sodiboo FUCK va hungrig thermia blev nu

@sierra @sodiboo grand chicken parmesan är ganska god dock :3 iallafall på thermias lokala max. väääldigt saftig kyckling :3

@sodiboo ahh that checks out. yeah their BankID intergration is really quite neat

@thermia as i also outlined above: the original theory was to find a way to have a “sovereign” digital identity based only on service providers for finite resources like IP addresses (Telia sells them!), phone numbers (Telia sells them!), and domain names (Telia sells them! But not to individuals ) in a way that is not dependent on any other Corporations. for instance, i specifically wanted to self host email (FROM HOME? ARE YOU CRAZY?).

anyways yeah i gave up on that so now i’m just using the email provider as a viable dependency for the domain name. This alllows me to use Loopia. So that’s what i’m going to do.

@sodiboo ah! good luck!

currently trying to figure out how to check out because they don’t let me enter payment details and when i click Next it just refreshes the page without doing anything .waht the heck

how long to pay for domain . hmmm

@charlotte @sodiboo @thermia hmm yes the impressumspflicht…

i like that their sidebar talks about their “SuperSupport” being available 365 days a year and then their schedule is just barely better than banks. you get 4 hours to talk to them on weekends and if you miss it , though fucking luck.

what the fricking frick frack. i turned off uBlock Origin and it STILL doesn’t work. hOW DO I PAY YOU PLEASE

@sodiboo @thermia WHOIS privacy is generally the norm rather than an exception nowadays… and in the case of .se and .nu I’m pretty sure it is always hidden

@cuddlebug @thermia I know it’s the norm!! I just didn’t see anything about it which is why i was unsure!

@cuddlebug @sodiboo yeah all of thermias personal domains that are on a TLD under IIS control all have whois protection. apparently this is also the case for domains that are registered to an “enskild firma”

except for the ones that are registered to a company, where they do display contact information

I. Can’t. Progress.

Loopia What Is Wrong With You

@sodiboo Vänligen använd Internet Explorer 6.

@sodiboo @ity

there are registrars that don’t require email? which ones?

njalla, while not an actual registrar, allows you to register an account with an XMPP instead of an E-Mail

they also have VPS (much more expensive than elsewhere though), so you can get both from them without an email

or even without a banking account, since they accept crypto payments

@kimapr @ity

allows you to register an account with an XMPP instead of an E-Mail

right, so with my use case this is worthless because where am i going to get an XMPP address without a domain name first, or signing up to someone else’s service (which probably requires an email? idk what’s normal for XMPP)

like it’s not as if email is any better: i am literally conceeding that and just signing up to someone else’s email service.

but XMPP also doesn’t solve that.

@sodiboo could say it’s pulling you in a loop

@sodiboo @ity

or signing up to someone else’s service (which probably requires an email? idk what’s normal for XMPP)

i think for xmpp servers it’s normal to just require username + password + captcha

@kimapr @ity oh. okay. so it’s exactly the same constraint as email then.

XMPP is less jank probably. like it’s not goddamn SMTP.

but at the end of the day it sounds like basing this off an XMPP identifier is entirely isomorphic to an email identifier. both can be acquired from someone else with a username+password, or self-hosted with a domain.

@cuddlebug @sodiboo @thermia imagine that lol the us could never haha (.us requires public whois info)

@cuddlebug @thermia also, the fact that .se requires WHOIS privacy and Loopia never mentions anything about it (and Loopia is primarily .se/.nu; that’s *literally how i found them, through this page), is a good indicator that Loopia is indeed always-on WHOIS privacy.

but the fact that .se requires WHOIS privacy does not directly guarantee anything, as i will not actually be buying an .se domain from them. (they have cheaper renewal options like .one and .no)

@sodiboo @thermia @cuddlebug this one was going to get feliscat.us for its fedi domain but no, someone else can have it lol

porkbun was very adamant that it should not get it at every step of the way

@Chloe @thermia @cuddlebug try domestic.cat

i tried it in chromium and it Still Doesn’t Work

@sodiboo they call it supersupport because they are drunk

@sodiboo i told you

ie 6

amazing company name

@sodiboo dr liunx ass

(just bored so i’m browsing norid registrars or whatever)

OH. i think i found THE ISSUE

LOOPIA YOU FUCKS. GIVE ME ERROR MESSAGES DAMNIT.

okay so the issue is you cannot buy a .no domain (which is what i was trying to buy) using Swedish BankID at Loopia.

Because, a .no domain requires a Norwegian address? I didn’t know this. It also requires getting a Personal ID with Norid (the norwegian domain registry). See the attached image for form validation errors.

BankID skips this form, and pulls my details from the Swedish Tax Agency, including my home address in Sweden, and not including a Norid PID (because the Swedish Tax Agency does not fucking care about this. why would they. they do know my norwegian Personnummer, but that’s not what Norid needs me to give to registrars)

Loopia’s frontend code says “Brilliant! Your email and phone number is valid, and you used BankID for the rest. You can submit the form.”

Their backend code, in their infinite excellency, responds to this with “200 OK. Content-Type: text/html. Here’s the same webpage you were just looking at”. No error is reported.

What the fuck.

There should be an error. “You cannot buy a .no domain with BankID”. Instead, they do this frustrating thing. Fucking hell.

time to find another domain

or i mean. i have a norwegian address i can give them. i can just do it with Norid. i simply cannot create my Loopia account using BankID if i do that.

wait. can i buy a swedish domain for 1kr, for the sole purpose of creating a Loopia account with BankID, then never renew it and let that domain lapse, and then buy the .no domain i wanted

@sodiboo are domains more expensive if you have a child

woah this is the first time i’ve ever seen a Swish payment form explicitly acknowledge the fact that Swish supports international phone numbers.

one website i tried to buy from rejected me, because my phone number isn’t swedish. i literally couldn’t pay them. so i didn’t. gave my money somewhere else.

most merchants, and Swish itself just have a freeform text “phone number” input.

this “dibspayment.eu” processor is the first one i’ve seen acknowledge that Wow Country Codes Exist . Yes, Even In Sweden

@ptrc @sodiboo yes

@ptrc not for daddy

@ptrc this is actually a widely accepted norm in the DNS industry: this is why e.g. GoDaddy has branding that cheers on daddies all around the world. IANA doesn’t like moms

my phone screen now has short term burn in of the BankID logo, after staring at it for way too long trying to bash my head against the .no checkout at Loopia

okay so anything i type in here ending in .no gets discarded in the next screen. i tried typing in several .no and a .se and only the .se was acknowledged as something i typed in. no error messages just silently ignored it

i’m starting to wonder is Loopia even a good service. like what. their .no support is terrible, at least. horrible.

like, the fact that i log in with BankID is very attractive. i think that’s still a good reason to use Loopia. right

@sodiboo the domain doesn’t give consent (.no)

anyways uhhh if i go to their main website and try to look up a .no domain to buy, it takes me to the same UI that pretends i didn’t ask about any domain. what the fuck. the entire flow i just went through is only ever for new customers. existing customers must use the logged in flow. which doesn’t support buying .no i guess, even though they said they offer .no?????

oh actually this is sorta neat. i think with Loopia you get DNS & web hosting & mail hosting and such as a property of your account. i swear with some others that’s athing you buy per domain, but here the account overall has a “Tier” or something. i can’t “buy DNS for this domain”, but i can “upgrade by account plan to include LoopiaDNS”

@sodiboo well now that it’s burned into your screen you have no other choice

ok so i think i can trick the frontend into letting me try to buy a .no domain by editing the form values. maybe

YES. if i edit thati nput field, and submit the form wrong (don’t check the box for any domains), then the form refreshes with information about that domain name. it even tells me about Norid’s rules and such.

what the fuck it accepted the registration but didn’t make me pay. then i didn’t immediately click to pay and now i don’t know how to pay.

so now my Loopia account has an “unregistered” .no domain in it, for which i’m pretty sure there’s no flow to provide my Norid PID, and i don’t know how to pay because it doesn’t say i have an invoice in the money bits of the interface (but it does say on that domain that it needs to be paid for)

this has got to be the most confusing company i have ever tried to give my money to.

why are all the swoomfs using this registrar. is it really just for the BankID. is there any other redeeming quality.

HOW DO I PAY FOR THE DOMAIN I JUST REGISTERED

lowkey considering buying the domain elsewhere just to see what Loopia’s backend says then

because at this point Loopia is just a burden. BankID is nice but if i’m not going to be basing my email identity off that in the first place. then fuck it. i mean it’s still kinda sorta based off BankID.

chain of custody without using Loopia goes: Legal Identity -> Personnummer (-> BankID)? -> Telia account -> Phone number -> Fastmail account -> “stage 0” email address (@fastmail.com) -> “stage 1” registrar account -> “stage 1” domain -> “stage 1” email address (also at Fastmail) -> freedom to use any registrar at this point -> “stage 2” domains (all other domains are stage 2) -> all my non-critical accounts

i guess i can skip the double-registrar thing at this point. and just put all my eggs in one basket. there isn’t a purpose in having a “stage 1” registrar if it doesn’t give me BankID login (which if you look in the diagram above, is a neat shortcut in the chain of custody in case i suddenly lose access to everything and need to regain it all)

@sodiboo free domain 👍

@GroupNebula563 No. it can’t be used without payment. This is a distinct state in their system. It’s “pending activation”. It’s not a free domain. It’s a domain that i can no longer try registering anew.

@sodiboo bestie what the fuck does any of this mean I’m scared

o. i found it. the invoice for my .no domain actually exists now, it just took a while to show up i guess.

curious how this is going to work out when they do not have a norwegian address nor my Norid PID

@eri I’m trying to rebase my digital identity so it’s based on resources i control.

currently, most of my accounts are registered with emails using domains i own. however, it just goes to Gmail.

additionally, my domain registrar account (and some choice few other “critical acounts”) instead use an email domain my dad owns.

i don’t want to be at the whim of Gmail. i also want to own the root of my identity. for this i need a registrar account that isn’t circularly dependent on the domains it owns.

okay so i’ve just paid like 200 kr for a .no domain name but at no point did the registrar ask for my Norid PID like Norid requires.

so

this is exciting.

Okay. So.

It’s telling me the invoice is paid.

It’s also telling me “This domain name still hasn’t been registered; it will be as soon as the invoice has been paid for.”

those two messages being on, like, the same exact page.

do you think their SuperSupport knows how to account for a kid who hacked their HTML code

@sodiboo years of indoctrination from seeing their ads on youtube made me think it was the best registrar for .se and I kinda wish there were better and cheaper alternatives

@cuddlebug me who has never seen or heard of them before when i was literally looking for “swedish registrars who support BankID login” and narrowed it down to them as the only ones fitting the description. because i use adblockers and have done so for years.

i notice in their account settings they have the option to change all the same details that were autofilled by BankID. i figured maybe i could set a Norid PID there, and it’ll resolve itself if i do that maybe. Nope. It has every field except for the Norid PID.

apparently the login username is just. The domain i bought. and i can choose which one to change the password for.

If i understand their login system correctly:

• Any account can have arbitrarily many domain names
• Each domain name can have a login password associated with it
• If you associate a passsword with a domain name, then that domain name + that password is a valid combination to log into the account
• Additonally, an account has arbitrarily many Perssonnummer authorized
• For any given Personnummer, if you log in with BankID as that individual, you gain access to the account.

so if there are 2 users sharing the account and 3 domains total, i can have 5 distinct “credentials” to the account??

oh! i see. if i change my country to Norway, then i get to enter a Norid PID.

hm.

i wonder if i can break this and submit a Norid PID with a swedish address

doing these kinds of hacks are a Bad Idea with the domain i hope to become the root of my identity. but fuck it we ball

also why yes using a ccTLD is a bad idea probably but i’m a norwegian citizen and that can’t be taken away from me so i am eternally entitled to use .no.

(the same can’t be said for. cough cough other domains i’m also eligible for)

So. I just fetched my ID. let’s try to get a Norid PID

also Loopia you fucks charged me without even having the registration details. i will try to create them now

oh cute the norid signup info is only available in norwegian

i have to be 18 to get one?? kids can’t have .no domains??? good thing i waited a few months after initially researching this endeavour i guess. because it’d have sucked to not procrastinate for 4 months, still be 17, and then get told “lol no”

“You have to create a PID before you can register domains” CLEARLY NOT IF YOU REGISTER AT LOOPIA

protip for all my norwegian oomfs: the Fødelsnummer is on the back of the ID card. i did not know this, so it took me a good 30 seconds to find. this is Literally The First Time i’ve ever had to know my Fødelsnummer. Can you tell i grew up in Sweden.

“Merk at navnet må skrives akkurat slik som det er registrert i Folkeregisteret “

no fucking clue what it says in Folkeregisteret so i’m just gonna base this off vibes. i’m gonna type what i think is my name and hope its correct

@sodiboo You can find out by logging into skatteetaten and just looking at folkeregisteret

@garden oh thanks. wait how do i log into skatteetaten though

oh yeah. REAL FUCKING FUNNY GUYS this was a SCARY BOX TO SEE given my IRRATIONAL AVERSION TO SUPPLYING MY EMAIL ADDRESS AT ANY POINT IN THIS PROCESS.

(it’s okay, this page also actually gives me my Norid PID, it just also optionally allows me to conveniently send an email for easier bookkeeping)

@sodiboo Uhh right, one of the several login methods. If you have any of them…
I didn’t think about that

@garden i’ll see what can be done. it’s whatever i already got a Norid PID and like. i know my name. the “guessing” was just for funny. so it isn’t necessary to check Skatteetaten. but i’ll check why not

@sodiboo We actually ran into issues at some point with this because we forgot our middle name

@garden ✨ i don’t have a middle name ✨

i was also surprised to learn that apparently that makes me weird. nordic parents like giving their children middle names. this is something i learnt when my first girlfriend had like 5 middle names. just firstname lastname on her ID but in Skatteverket like thrice as long. “damn bitch u live like this” “yeah everyone has a middle name what do you mean you don’t have one”

@garden anyways yeah i don’t have any of these lol. only physical ID

YOOO I tricked Loopia into learning my Norid PID without giving them a Norwegian address!!! Which, i suppose, i don’t think it’s actually a requirement.

Wait no. It is. Norid says “ i must have a Norwegian post address”

I have a PO box i could use for this. That’s fine.

But i didn’t need to specify an address to use to get a Norid PID.

And Loopia also doesn’t have a Norwegian post address.

But it has the ✨ Magic Number ✨

let’s see how this goes

my .no domain still says it’s “unregistered but will be once the invoice is paid”. at this point, i paid them 45 minutes ago.

oh god it’s nearly been an hour.

i think this is all i can do?? so now i Wait i guess? it’s not like their customer service SuperSupport is active this time of day. thanks for nothing, SuperSupport.

@sodiboo zombie domain

@cuddlebug it’s not zombie that would imply it ever lived. the domain is just. Not Registered. someone could snipe it. just Loopia says “im waiting for the money ” and pinky promises to register it soon

@cuddlebug it’s more like an unborn fetus and there’s a high chance of miscarriage

@sodiboo maybe it wants more moneys…

@cuddlebug it isn’t asking for moneys. it just says “once the moneys are paid we will do it” (but there are no moneys left to pay)

yeah no so i checked the T&C for Norid and it states in no unclear terms that i nEEd a Norwegian address.

so Loopia shouldn’t be activating my domain.

so just waiting shouldn’t work.

and yet, that is what i will do.

i wanna hear what Loopia SuperSupport tells me to do.

also i don’t have a relevant norwegian address easily at hand or memorized. so there’s that. i’ll contact my folks to get this information, though, before Norid comes in yelling at me or whatever

@sodiboo hmm yes interesting predicament. I’m sure it will resolve itself magically like all computer problems usually do

@sodiboo the abortion group chat is popping off rn

@sodiboo Ah, right.

@sodiboo well I have also used an adblocker for many years… but there was a time where I did not

the most memorable ad from them was where they were selling how quick it was to register a domain name by having a guy holding onto the edge of a building with phone in the other hand and he registered a domain name on his phone and then he let go and falls down and then the ad was over

quite fitting marketing methinks

@sodiboo for some reason this post made me think of this Joel clip: https://youtu.be/gmX5yQ7yQgA

@sodiboo except where they say “go daddy” i guess
if it’s excluding just moms.. is that misogyny

@sodiboo @niko

Sales Tax is calculated on total sale, and VAT is built into individual item advertised prices.

TarSnap is not unreasonably outraged that this means the Internet is exposed to many tax regimes just as it is to many timezones, but that is what it is.

Those USA 🇺🇸 states which have Sales Tax likewise add it on after subtotal.
As TarSnap points out, it's Europe that's different with VAT.
US States will try to demand vendors collect tax from their residents if not collecting own.

@sodiboo I have like four domains with them (various .se and .nu), they’re fine but they keep raising their prices to the point I’m confused why they also charge extra for the most simple things like… their DNS server (even though I use cloudflare nameservers anyway)

nvm just remembered the proxy postal address i can use is already public. because that corporation already registers a domain and corpos don’t get domain privacy, i can just ask norid for their address. yay. no irl bureaucracy needed

yes there is a corporation who is my bitch such that i can use then as a postal proxy. no i will not elaborate.

still i think i’ll just wait for Loopia to ask me what my address should be. Let’s be difficult. Fuck it.

okay so i talked to the bossman. turns out the address i found on whois is not the proxy address and it’s more like /dev/null. legally i can use it but i will not see mail that goes there. its purpose for existing is because “sometimes you have to trick your customers”.

the proxy address will be revealed tomorrow. which works out fine. because Loopia SuperSupport probably won’t respond until tomorrow. also i already contacted Loopia SuperSupport. “hello pls i paid u an hour ago and my domain wasn’t registered yet pls register it xoxo”

huh. i just received, 6 minutes ago, as junk mail, the invoice for the first .se domain i bought.

this arrived like 2 hours after the follow-up email stating that said invoice has been paid. (this domain is already active but i’m just not going to use it. i will intentionally let it expire. it was literally just used to create an account with Loopia using BankID and nothing else)

can i set a rule in Fastmail to make a sender never considered spam??

because the fact that it already marked an invoice as spam is not sufficiently promising.

i went to the email rules thing and there’s rule to say “Send to Spam” but i can’t figure out how to negate that.

this part of the thread feels more disorganized now because it is. i’m playing the waiting game and getting distracted by everything else

since the domain i won’t use was acquired for basically free but it’s also not a domain that nobody would ever want to use, i might as well set up something on it saying “hey it’s yours if you want it”. so nobody searches for it, goes there, and thinks “aw shucks i can’t use it”. because like yeah they can if they just ask. i’d offer it here on fedi, but i intentionally won’t because y’all don’t know the domain so if i never bought it you wouldn’t know the difference. buying it can only possibly negatively affect someone who also tries to register it within the next year. and in that case, it’d be neat if they can get it for whatever purpose they wanted.

@sodiboo @thermia @cuddlebug .cat is too restrictive