Justine Smithies
justine@snac.smithies.me.uk
The more I read and research into this project with help from others the more it is making me feel uncomfortable about the language it uses and how things have developed over time. I am a happy Wayland user but totally agree that Xorg should be kept alive for those that wish to use it if possible. I originally thought about just deleting my toot but that's just hiding what happened. I jumped the gun and whole heartedly hold my hands up and unless things change I don't endorse what I originally posted below. Mute, Unfollow me or block me if you wish that's your prerogative and that's what makes Mastodon an amazing place. Yes someone is going to be outraged at this too and I'm sorry for that too. I'm not good at putting things into words so I'm going to stop now before digging any deeper holes.
One to watch especially for #Xorg fans is a new upcoming fork of Xorg called XLibre Xserver.
I will be watching this project very closely to see where it goes and I will be giving it a test drive for sure. This is big news especially if they succeed in keeping Xorg alive and upto date with new features which I really hope they do.
https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver
Update
Regarding the README saying " It's explicitly free of any "DEI" or similar discriminatory policies. Anybody who's treating others nicely is welcomed."
I don't think they've worded things correctly. Basically I think what they are trying to say is "That it doesn't matter who you are or how you identity as long as you're respectful then feel free to contritube in some way"
That's just my take for now though unless things change.
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Justine Smithies
justine@snac.smithies.me.ukhttps://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2025/06/06/msg032747.html
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@justine >It's explicitly free of any "DEI" or similar discriminatory policies
Why in gods name would anyone go near this?
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Justine Smithies
justine@snac.smithies.me.ukThat's just my take for now though unless things change.
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Charlotte/Cinny 
charlotte
@justine @CursedSilicon specifically calling out “dei” as discriminatory and the tagline “making x11 great again” does point in a certain, fascist, political direction
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@charlotte @justine The whole thing smells very chud-y tbh
A lot of people smarter than me have explained why X11 needs to be replaced in incredibly lengthy detail. This seems like a reactionary movement like the anti-systemd crowd
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Charlotte/Cinny
charlotte
@CursedSilicon @justine also it’s not like freedesktop would block you from stepping up as a maintainer of x, many have tried but have stepped down due to technical issues with a 40 year old codebase that predates any modern deployment of computer systems
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@troed @charlotte @justine A lot of different communities rely on Telegram (such as y'know, furries)
If anything it just sounds like they're incompetent
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'on June 6th 2025, Redhat employees started a purge on the Xlibre founder's gitlab account on freedesktop.org: deleted the git repo, tickets, merge requests, etc'
'It's explicitly free of any "DEI" or similar discriminatory policies.'
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💙🩷💜Ⓑⓡⓔⓣⓣ🐡🍉🐧
brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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Troed Sångberg
troed@swecyb.comThe only reason you run a dev community on Telegram is because of the russians on board.
No thanks, not today.
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@troed @charlotte @justine Ah. So we're doing "conspiracy theories but in the opposite direction"
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Justine Smithies
justine@snac.smithies.me.uk
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@troed @charlotte @justine If that's what you need to believe! Goodbye :)
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@justine I appreciate you giving them the benefit of the doubt, but “DEI is discriminatory” is is pretty undeniable regressive right wing verbiage. It’s a direct echo of Trump and friends’ political line.
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Justine Smithies
justine@snac.smithies.me.uk
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@CursedSilicon @charlotte @justine Anti-systemd crowd reactionary?? Really??
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@visone @charlotte @justine Benno Rice summed up a lot of my thoughts on the anti-systemd crowd pretty succinctly years ago
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@CursedSilicon @charlotte @justine Well, because some people on the anti-systemd crowd are stupid, everyone on it is????
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@visone @charlotte @justine I don't recall making that accusation. Please don't put words in my mouth
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@CursedSilicon @charlotte @justine
This seems like a reactionary movement like the anti-systemd crowdYour words, not mine ……
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@visone @charlotte @justine Huh. I grepped for the word "stupid" and came up with no results
Please explain?
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@visone @charlotte @justine See I still can't find where I used that phrase. Or any synonyms thereof
Or are you saying "reactionary" politics are inherently stupid? Because that's not something I said. That's something you've inferred and taken issue with
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@CursedSilicon @charlotte @justine I gonna have to leave this here ….. I called you out about a generalization but I guess you can’t recognize it, so ….. be well !!!
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@visone @charlotte @justine While I didn't call you (or the anti-systemd crowd in general) stupid. Your inability to argue on merit is definitely leading me to that conclusion.
I'm sorry if you think the only way you can win is to lie and accuse me of something I didn't do. But I suppose I should've expected nothing less when you shrugged off constructive criticism from a LinuxConf talk
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@justine I will repeat the obvious but the "MIT computer lab classroom full of terminals in the 80s" use case which sparked the X11 development is not the "laptop with two GPUs connected to a variety of screens" we have today.
Fading out Xorg is the right decision.
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@CursedSilicon @charlotte @justine No stupid, you call me reactionary, and for me that’s worse. It’s not that I can’t argue with you, it’s because I don’t want to!! I don’t wanna win, that’s imposible with people that can’t see their own errors….
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systemsShow content
@visone @charlotte @justine I did call you reactionary. Very good :) now that we're on the same page
Perhaps reflect on why the rest of us consider you lot "reactionary". When you dismiss constructive discussion and go for whining about being "attacked"
PS: Your distro website has a ton of grammatical mistakes. I've highlighted a few below just to give you a starting point.
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Charlotte/Cinny
charlotte
@visone @justine @CursedSilicon it seems you are the one making generalizations here
there are many criticisms you can make both of systemd and wayland which are valid, both on a technical level as well as an opinion basis. it is also not unreasonable or stupid to refuse to use either for any reason.
however both the anti-systemd and anti-wayland crowds are based on reactionary arguments, whether they are just opposing the change as a whole or providing irrelevant technical arguments [like systemd’s relative disk size on a typical modern system, or systemd’s scope] or specific use cases that either have been addressed [x forwarding] or simply do not have enough demand anymore [screensavers]
This isn’t to say that everyone who doesn’t like systemd or wayland are inherently reactionary, it is an observation of the groups as a whole when zoomed out. this necessarily brushes over it with a broad stroke.
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Cursed Silicon
CursedSilicon@social.restless.systems@charlotte @visone @justine Honestly when I realized it was some kid with a hobby Linux distro project who has enough time to argue about systemd on fucking Mastodon it became immediately apparent that they weren't worth engaging with seriously
As a rule of thumb I generally ignore the anti-systemd crowd as-is (for the reasons you described) but this one was just a blaring neon "not worth it" sign
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