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A more detailed writeup of how the FSF is not only wrong about TPMs being involved in hardware-based DRM, they missed the actual user-hostile hardware DRM implementation: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/70954.html

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@mjg59 imo they just stopped following where tech is moving quite a while ago, RYF is quite a good example from that because of how bizarre the firmware rules are (quite literally if there is no open source firmware right now, it cannot possibly be updated by anyone ever) even though firmware is ever getting more complicated with loads of bugs that need to get fixed

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@mjg59

As a side-discussion ... Could the lack of a TEE-like feature on the Intel platforms also partly explain why Apple chose the ARM platform over the Intel platform they were on?

There is also the performance aspect, but combine that with TEE and the possibilities ARM adds with additional CPU "extensions" and possibility more too. But the TEE feature seems to fit well into Apples streaming media efforts as well.

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@dazo @mjg59 I’m fairly certain their decision to go with ARM was purely the fact that they were already making their own ARM SoCs, combined with the fact that they could beat everyone else on battery life with it.

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@dazo @mjg59 On Intel at least Apple used custom ME firmware for DRM, (thanks vertical integration). I don't think Apple's silicon has TrustZone, they use the SEP instead which i don't think satisfies the definition of TEE?

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@mjg59 The TPM can do remote attestation, which would make the OS itself trusted, which can then enforce whatever crap they want, since Microsoft will happily build out the infrastructure for them.

Though I'm less concerned about the DRM uses of it than restricting software freedom through coercion. DRM will get broken eventually by dedicated groups and I can then download the content and get a better experience then paying users.

But having to hack into one's own hardware just to get multiplayer games or even essential services like banking working, that's a significant barrier for most people, which will lock them into the default and prevent them from unilaterally dealing with BS like ads.

That's only a matter of time unless user override is implemented, just look at Android, and how Google wanted to implement web integrity in Chrome. I get the utility of the hardware, but as users we need the ability to forge remote attestation signatures, that's the only way to keep it fair.

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@mjg59 As to why Windows 11 has the TPM requirement, I think Microsoft wants to build out said remote attestation infrastructure to make it easier for developers to (ab)use, they'll probably seek to expand the features over time and embed more advanced security processors that can run their own code similar to mobile chips, and lock down the "platform" further.

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