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Realistically, if you get sanctioned by the US and want to keep operating, what recourse do you even have other than moving to Russia?
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@chjara china maybe if you're lucky? honestly can't think of anything else really

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@lanodan Well yes. Any country that isn't gonna care about sanctions in general.
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@chjara Although could maybe do it like Pirate Bay switching domains but instead change of names entirely.
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@lanodan Reorganize is probably what A/I is gonna do yeah.
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@chjara That said given it's terrorism… it could be a bit too close to how ThePirateBay founders got in jail via some sort of international lawsuit.
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@lanodan Sanctioning an entity within an existing framework of extensive sanctions against anyone who slightly slights the US is easy, actually suing them is harder. I doubt the US is gonna actually go after A/I harder.
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@chjara i mean plenty actually, provided you aren't substantially supported by US money

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@dysfun You can't use Western banks or any kind of payment provider. Like at all. They're all bound by US sanctions.
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@chjara no, you can't take mastercard or visa, slightly different.

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@dysfun The nail in the coffin for A/I was getting kicked out by their bank, an Italian bank bound by Italian laws, who still didn't want to go against US sanctions.
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@dysfun @chjara law doesn't matter, you can get SLAPPed by the justice system and the government themselves

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@chjara crypto is the only working asset without US intervention as of now, the digital euro might help but I'm not sure we can trust the ECB here

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@chjara yes,  cryptobros had a point

no, most of them are not good either, I mean have you seen what they did with Ethereum lmao

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@dysfun Go ahead. Sue a bank and the US executive. Good luck.
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@chjara Also kind of want to put: As far as I can tell Autistici/Inventati so far was 100% legal and just had typical small hoster with left-wing politics legal troubles in the past.
While trying to work around US sanctions is pretty much going outlaw.
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@xerz @chjara I mean yeah of course they have a point, but like
cryptocurrency is not the solution, it's a shitty workaround
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@dysfun @chjara even in countries where there is a bank that is legally obligated to offer you a bank account, it’s a hard sell if the choice is between “kick out one customer unlawfully” and “stop being able to trade with US banks entirely”

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@xerz @chjara this isn't the united states, at least some parts of this continent are not completely beyond help.

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@dysfun @chjara you're talking about Italy

maybe not completely beyond help, but.......... not far off

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@dysfun @chjara I say this as a Spaniard, I know how messed up it all is down here

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@novenary @chjara @xerz Specially as the typical implementation of it is switching Swift for blockchain, and calling banks exchangers+ledgers.
Exchangers which would also be subject to the threat of US sanctions.

What's truly left is cash and physical donations like hardware, also good luck with paying registrars.
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@novenary @chjara well, at a theoretical level, it's about the best workaround we got

the solution is breaking down global economies and changing how commerce works as a whole, but uh

baa

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@lanodan @chjara @xerz yeah DNS really sucks because it's impossible to decentralize at all
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@novenary @chjara @lanodan then there's what Tor does, which has a really robust cryptographic implementation of "we pinky pwomise not to mess with wour womains uwu"

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@xerz @chjara @lanodan isn't tor key-addressed? which works, but it makes domains unwieldy
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@novenary @lanodan @xerz So is the internet protocol. You could make a name system for Tor just fine, and I'd be surprised if one doesn't already exists.
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@xerz @chjara i literally said i can't speak for italy in particular because i know it's an irredeemable shithole, i speak to italians.

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@novenary @chjara @lanodan it's... weird, because while key-addressed, it's not P2P

I did a thread back in my other fedi instance, holdup

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@novenary @chjara @xerz Well it's somewhat decentralised as in like ccTLDs are managed by their respective countries and trying to put dirty paws there would be an international disaster.

Problem is more like… then you need a country that's a bit "Fuck USA" but also not anti-leftist-activism (so Russian, China, … are out).
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@lanodan @novenary @xerz Ukraine asked ICANN to remove .ru in 2022, thankfully ICANN wasn't feeling like exploding the concept of the internet that day but frankly I don't know if that's gonna last.
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@chjara @lanodan @xerz what do you mean? this is what i'm talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle
onion services have a long random string in the "name" which makes them hard to remember but tamper-proof, the only way to change that is to centralize trust
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@novenary @chjara @xerz DNS isn't out of thin air, it's bootstrapped from raw IP addresses (13 of them in fact), with also the nice effect that NS (nameserver) records are just hostnames.

Tor or something based on it could technically (there's nasty political issues) go: Here's a list of nameservers for .name.onion, here's how to register.

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@lanodan @chjara @xerz yeah the point is that your choices are
- trust a central authority (DNS)
- name peers by their public key (tor, i2p, yggdrasil and a whole bunch of other overlay networks)
- give up on security entirely
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okay here's how Tor onion addresses work, please give @echedellelr pats and fondles :blobcatpeekaboo:​
Show content

@novenary @chjara @lanodan

@senhara @yawnbox @soatok I see you didn’t get any replies that fulfilled my curiosity, so

https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/711/onion-domains-dns-lookup#712
https://spec.torproject.org/rend-spec/overview.html

it seems like there’s something that’s kinda-but-not-really-like authoritative DNS servers, and it’s split in two parts: the first one are Hidden Service Directories (or “HSDir”s), they take care of holding a copy of the relevant hidden service descriptors that your server generates

that… does seem to imply a third-party, centralized single source of truth, doesn’t it? well, it is, but Tor tries to take care of that

https://spec.torproject.org/rend-spec/deriving-keys.html
https://spec.torproject.org/rend-spec/shared-random.html

the HSDir is constantly changed every 3 hours, and needs to be found out by clients — this is accomplished by knowing a shared random value (“SRV”) that (and here’s the kicker) is generated via consensus among the directory authorities, the second part of the puzzle

https://spec.torproject.org/dir-spec/index.html
https://spec.torproject.org/dir-spec/outline.html

a list of authorities is shipped with Tor, and then your client just goes and asks any one of them about the result of the consensus

…there’s also HSDir and directory caches tho, which: I need to go eat dinner now, sorry baa

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@novenary @chjara @lanodan ....am I being ghosted or is it that hard to read? blobcatsweat

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@lanodan @chjara @novenary @xerz also snowden’s situation showed us that even when there’s a bunch of countries other than russia wanting to help they’re not strong enough

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