Jeff Atwood
codinghorror@infosec.exchange
Basically we need diversity in wealth, rather than intense, unprecedented wealth concentration. I like to think of it as Y Combinator for the rest of us. Guaranteed Minimum Income is investing in the most vulnerable among us – those who are currently suffering the most. You might be surprised what these folks are capable of when you give them the resources they need to do more than just survive. https://rgmii.org/what-is-gmi-guaranteed-minimum-income/
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joepie91 (🔜 eth0; status: aaaaaaa)
joepie91@slightly.tech@codinghorror the problem with GMI (as opposed to UBI) is that it's just means testing again, which by now it is abundantly clear prevents said most vulnerable from actually getting the support they need.
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@joepie91 that's a lie perpetrated by the companies that benefit the most from repeating this lie, aka the FOR PROFIT "means testing industrial complex", see here: https://rgmii.org/blog/initial-frequently-asked-questions/#why-not-universal
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joepie91 (🔜 eth0; status: aaaaaaa)
joepie91@slightly.tech@codinghorror no, it isn't, and that is absolutely not what I am talking about. I live in the Netherlands and we've had various means-tested welfare systems here, and without exception the only purpose of the means-testing has turned out to be a political wedge to try and deprive as many people as possible from the support they need whenever any vaguely right-wing coalition comes into power. all the while there is *no* economic justification for the means testing, as is also confirmed by lots of UBI studies all around the world plus welfare studies here in NL.
the *specific purpose of* means testing is to keep support away from people, under a plausible-looking disguise of 'economic responsibility'. that is the only reason why it exists, and it is compromising with austerity politicians in advance.
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joepie91 (🔜 eth0; status: aaaaaaa)
joepie91@slightly.tech@codinghorror like, please take a moment to learn from places that aren't the US, instead of treating means-tested welfare (which is what GMI is) like some revolutionary concept.
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@joepie91 and UBI gives money to people that do not need it at all, a truly sick joke, giving the rich more money ... and clawing it back through taxes? How's that working out for everyone so far?
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joepie91 (🔜 eth0; status: aaaaaaa)
joepie91@slightly.tech@codinghorror genuinely, I ask you to actually take the time to understand why it works that way, because you are 100% letting gut feelings override rational analysis here. and I say this as someone who believes that it shouldn't even be *possible* for people to be rich, veering quite close to outright 'eat the rich' ideologically.
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@joepie91 please, for the love of god, read the words on this page. Then reply. Or don't. Whatever. https://rgmii.org/blog/initial-frequently-asked-questions/
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joepie91 (🔜 eth0; status: aaaaaaa)
joepie91@slightly.tech@codinghorror I've only been reading into welfare/UBI/GMI/etc. systems for the past 15 years. this isn't some new concept to me. I understand perfectly well what the arguments are, and I think they're bunk.
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@joepie91 gut feelings? I have research, science, and data. What do you have, my friend? Show me. Please.
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joepie91 (🔜 eth0; status: aaaaaaa)
joepie91@slightly.tech@codinghorror "it's a sick joke to give the rich more money" is a gut feeling, not "research, science and data". and the rational analysis would involve asking "hey, why *does* it give out money and then claw it back through taxes?", which would pretty quickly lead you to discover that this is actually a very common feature of tax systems, and that there are very good reasons for that.
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Charlotte 
/Cinny 
charlotte
@joepie91 @codinghorror (government-provided) education loans in germany are means tested (although to a much lower ceiling) and the end result is that children of deadbeat or actively malicious parents have a significantly harder time getting (primarily) tertiary education
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