At the tram stop just now, right next to some of the best bicycle infrastructure you'll ever see, an American tourist came to me to ask me if the Dutch government was doing anything about "this terrible bicycle problem" we have in the Netherlands. 🙃

He was really concerned to see so many bicycles everywhere. To his American brain, bicyclists were a terrible thing. He said he almost got hit by a bicyclist multiple times today. (Presumably by walking in the middle of the bicycle road. I don't know how else you manage to do that.) 🙃

If you want to exprience our "terrible bicycle problem" yourself, here's a video I recorded a few years ago of me biking through the area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZUHHBbz_kQ

(Said tram stop is roughly at the start of the video.)

@Mara Someone here (California, US) was arguing against bicycle infrastructure because it took space from cars, and did not remove any cars from the road. The basic argument was “How dare you spend ‘my’ tax dollars on something that does not directly benefit ‘me’”. The selfishness is stunning.

@Mara One problem might be that in much of the world this sign means "pedestrians please walk here".

@cford We don't have those signs anywhere here. We have these:

@Mara I have heard a couple people here (US) get worked up about bicyclists being in their way when they're driving. I don't understand it. If we could replace a third of the people on the road with bicyclists, wouldn't driving be better? People here seem so mentally captured by certain ideas, like they fully internalize the propaganda: bicycles are a menace on the road, and it's not a meal if it doesn't have meat.

@sillyCoelophysis Almost everywhere in this area, the bicycle roads are fully separate from the car roads.

@gordotango The costs of all of our tax-paid bicycle infrastructure are actually offset multiple times over by the benefits of having a healthy population due to biking being so popular. Effectively, the costs of our bicycle infrastructure is negative. ✨

@Mara I've seen it and it's an epidemic. It's too late to save the Dutch, but fortunately we Americans seem to be immune. 😜

@Mara huh. How can that possibly be a problem?

In the US I can kind of understand why bikes seem annoying, because they are forced to be part of the road with cars, unless they want to ride on the sidewalk, which is not a good idea either. Still, that should just make people who are insistent on driving cars ask for a better system for bikes. Bicyclists get hurt or killed here pretty often. They *should* have their own, separate roads.

@Mara Yes. And I actually responded to him that I use my bicycle around town more when it is safer. I replace about 10 trips a week with my bicycle, and rarely use a car around town. We also have horrific pedestrian infrastructure.

@Mara

Nevermind: it's just "this terrible education problem" that the US government is doing nothing about.

As a bicycling German: the Netherlands are doing this just fine.

BTW: thanks again for wg21.🔗

@notsoloud I told him that only happens to American tourists.

He also started complaining about all the bicyclists that "go over the speed limit". (What speed limit??) He seemed quite upset when I told him there are no speed limits for bicycles.

@Mara

That's funny!

Looking at the inner city of Amsterdam I can imagine it. The teeming tourists who don't know where to walk generate cyclists who just want to go places, so they don't slow down. To an American tourist the whole country IS the inner city of Amsterdam, rather than the exception.

@Mara I believe some people who are not used to there being bikes around have a mental model where a cyclist rolling, no matter how slowly, triggers the same internal reaction as a car doing the same thing. Someone going around them on a bike at a low speed startles them and it feels like they might be about to be run over. Nevermind that the speeds, visibility and maneuverability involved are very different.

@Mara

lol!

He’s gonna be sad and sadder because we’re really trying to make our cities here more bike friendly in the US.

I hope people ring their bicycle bells nice and loudly close to his ear.

I hope he steps on legos and is magically transported to the UC Davis campus for maximum exposure to bikes (and e-scooters).

@Mara at least 2 ways:

* The bicyclist cycling on the footpath. I was once injured by one crashing into me from behind. He was going as fast as bikes could go. There was a bike lane but for some reason he wasn't using it.

* By not stopping on a red traffic light (or just not following the general traffic rules). My 4 year old came very close to being hit by a fast bike a few weeks ago, when we both were about to step on the street after the traffic light turned green for us (which meant they were definitely red for the bicyclist for a good 5s before that).

@zeenix @Mara In the Netherlands, biking and walking infrastructure are separated everywhere, by design, to avoid the very problem you describe. Folks follow the rules of the road because the infrastructure makes it easy and safe for them to do so.

@mekki @Mara Just FYI I live in Berlin and have been to the Netherlands many times. I know how it all works. I'm sure tourists make mistakes but cyclists being careless is also an unfortunate fact.

@zeenix @mekki @Mara Good thing those careless cyclists are not in cars being careless drivers! I'd rather be hit by a bike than a car any day. That goes double if they are a hammerhead who goes as fast as possible, tailgates, and swerves no matter what kind of vehicle they are using.

@zeenix @Mara Tourists that are unfamiliar with the concept of three separated paved spaces (cars, bikes, pedestrians) sometimes incorrectly assume that the bike lanes are pedestrian lanes, ignore the signage, and essentially wander into (bicycle) traffic and then get angry. This is the North America equivalent of walking out into the middle of a busy highway and getting mad at the cars.

@LukefromDC @zeenix @mekki @Mara Yeah. I was hit by a bicycle a few years ago, on a major road, probably at full speed. I was shaken up, and I have a minor scar on one knee. Such a better way to live.

@erk @Mara It used to be a bicycle path with a very, very small sidewalk. Cycling is no longer allowed, but that doesn't stop people.

@mrotteveel @erk Cycling is allowed there.

@Mara make Switzerland this terrible! I beg you! We have some terrible bicyling lanes here too, but we could have some really terrible ones more, so if you have some to spare :D

We like terrible things.

@Mara I don't understand how you could end up travelling there without even knowing an iota about bicycle culture

@erk @Mara That first sign is a forbidden to park your bike or motorcycle.

@Mara @erk You're right. I hadn't noticed the "fietsers toegestaan" sign.